| Author | Topic: Add: The Bonny Black Hare | |
| dmcg | Posted - 16 Mar 03 - 08:25 am | |
The Bonny Black Hare One morning in Autumn by the dawn of the day, With my gun in good order I straight took my way; To hunt for some game to the woods I did steer, To see if I could find my bonny black hare. I met a young damsel, her eyes black as sloes, Her teeth white as ivory, her cheeks like the rose, Her hair hung in ringlets on her shoulders bare, "Sweet maiden," I cried, "did you see my black hare? This morning a-hunting I have been all round, But my bonny black hare is not to be found." The maiden she then answer'd, and at him did stare, "I never yet heard of - or saw - a black hare." "I think you are deceitful, young maid," he did say, "My bonny black hare I am told pass'd this way; And you have decoy'd me, I vow and declare, You shall go with me for to hunt the black hare. My gun in good order, my balls are also, And under your smock I was told she did go. So delay me no longer, I cannot stop here, One shot I will fire at your bonny black hare." His gun he then loaded, determin'd he was, And instantly laid her down on the green grass; His trigger he drew, put his balls in her ear, And fired one shot at her bonny black hare. Her eyes they did twinkle, and smiling did say: "How oft, dearest sportsman, do you come this way? There is few in this country can with you compare, So fire once again at my bonny black hare." His gun he reloaded and fired once more, She cried, "Draw your trigger and never give o'er. Your powder and and balls are so sweet, I declare, Keep shooting away at my bonny black hare." He said, "My dear maiden, my powder is all done, My gun is out of order, I cannot ram home, But meet me tomorrow, my darling so fair, And I'll fire once again at your bonny black hare." Source: Purslow, F, (1972), The Constant Lovers, EDFS, London Notes: Frank Purslow's notes are as follows:
TYhe most commonly sung version in folk clubs derives from a Fairport Convention recording to a different tune. Database entry is here. | ||
| masato sakurai | Posted - 16 Mar 03 - 04:33 pm | |
Sharp collected a short version, which is in Maud Karpeles, ed., Cecil Sharp's Collection of English Folk Songs, vol. 2 (No. 401). THE BONNY BLACK HAREBallads at Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads are titled "Bonny Black Hare" (4 editions) and "Black Hare" (1 edition). BLACK HARE (Firth b.25(347)) Edited By masato sakurai - 16/03/2003 16:39:35 | ||
| Malcolm Douglas |
Posted - 16 Mar 03 - 04:46 pm | |
Roud 1656 Not often found in tradition, but in cases like this it's unsafe to draw conclusions. Many singers didn't care for this kind of song, and neither did many of the folk song collectors. Its apparent scarcity was probably also compounded by the fact that a lot of people who did know it wouldn't feel able to sing it in cold blood, so to speak, to a complete stranger; particularly one of a higher social class, and never, of course, to a woman. Henry Burstow, for example, refused to sing the words of Salisbury Plain (a very mild song by comparison) for Lucy Broadwood, and she had to make do with a rather confused tune alternately whistled and hummed. Vaughan Williams got the words from him later. Beside examples found by Gardiner, Cecil Sharp (1908) and Frank Warriner (c.1930), sets have turned up in Scotland (Greig-Duncan, vol. 7) and the USA (Vance Randolph, Roll Me in Your Arms, 1992: two sets noted in the 1940s). A. L. Lloyd[?] found a set in Suffolk in 1938 (see below), and Mike Yates recorded one from the Traveller Lemmie Brazil in Gloucestershire in the 1970s. There are several broadside editions at Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads: Bonny black hare The Fairport recording (Angel Delight, 1971) was an arrangement of the version Bert Lloyd came up with; Martin Carthy and Dave Swarbrick had recorded it a few years earlier on their album Byker Hill(1967). The sleevenotes (by Carthy and Lloyd) commented: "This version was collected from an Irish labourer, Mr Morrow, at Walberswick, Suffolk, in 1938. His tune is a member of the widespread melody family called Lough Lein but his rhythm was not very clear. Some versions he sang in a standard 9/8 (3 3 3) others a bit curtailed into a 'mixed' 8/8 (3 2 3)." Lloyd himself recorded the song, accompanied by Swarbrick, for Topic's 1966 compilation, The Bird in the Bush. | ||
| Abby Sale | Posted - 17 Mar 03 - 07:10 pm | |
Malcolm, for a rare change, I disagree with you on this. I do feel that many of the folk song publishers and academics did not like them and that they refused to print them. But vast numbers of suggestive, snide, double entendre and frankly bawdy songs have been collected in England and Scotland and often published - even by the reverends - Duncan & (oi! I've blanked the English one - Baring-Gould?) Such over-the-counter collections as Wanton Seed and Seeds of Love and Marrowbones are chock full of them. They're probably as common in tradition in the US & Canada but far less likely to be printed. (As of today, there are AFAIK still only three scholarly works that include trad. American bawdry and them not printed until the 1990's. But we know for a certainty that many were encountered by Lomax from cowboys and mountain folk as well as by others from Laker & Canal sources. It is idiotic that we still have no scholarly collections of sailor or lumbering songs but it is naive to hold the songs don't exist. (Perhaps the rumored Ives or Hugill collections will appear one day.) There may have been some hesitancy to sing bawdy songs to the more straightlaced "outsiders" but they were often sung to collectors who were better able to gain the confidence of the singer. Perhaps sources were more likely to sing such songs to a same-gender collector but I'm not even confident of that. The amazing thing is that bawdry seems to be a female, not a male domain. Imagine those who own sex in older thinking - women, rather that "dirty songs" as sung by delinquent males. "Amazing" because we're still pretty Puritan in the US and want to hold that men are "dirty" and women are "pure." I certainly have no statistics here but (referring more to "bawdy ballads" than "dirty songs") but respondants seem more likely to be female, and often very young - so says Randolph. Noting the vast number of Scottish bawdy ballads - still in tradition among the Stewarts/Robertsons, certainly - I asked Sheila Douglas if it were her impression that it was true there as well. She opined (no proof offered) that it was. No, I do believe the problem was only getting them printed, not collected. You, yourself, mention a bunch of printings for this one. BTW, if you're going to sing it and don't have the gift of control that Carthy has, you might try the tune given in Randolph, "Villikins & his Dinah." Scans pretty well to that except one line. About a year ago I sang this song at a house party. People applauded ok (Orlando is not strong on bawdy folk song) but they also tended to stare into space a bit. After a bit of a pause one geezer up and said, "I think I'll go home believing I just heard a song about hunting." I said, "of course it's about hunting, what else?" | ||
| Malcolm Douglas |
Posted - 17 Mar 03 - 07:56 pm | |
Sharp was pretty good at getting his sources -of either sex- to relax, but not all of the early 20th century collectors had his social ease. To an extent, I'm sure that Randolph was right about women's bawdry, but my impression is that it was more of a private thing at the time of the first flourish of 20th century folk song collecting, when women sang primarily in the home or at work. Singers like Sharp's Mrs Overd, who danced him round the street when they first met, horrifying the vicar's family with whom he was staying, and who happened to be passing at the time (he told them to go away) and Hammond's Mrs Russell seem rather to have been exceptions. As the century progressed, so attitudes eased, both in terms of "correctness" and across social barriers, and I think that's reflected in the kind of material recovered, and published, in more recent years. It was always there, but people were less likely to produce it outside their immediate social context. There were certainly songs which men would sing with their friends, but never in front of their wives; and doubtless exactly the same was true of women, though we know less about that. | ||
| Phil Taylor | Posted - 18 Mar 03 - 12:12 am | |
One minor point is that today when most people live in cities and have never seen a hare they probably miss the clue in the title. There's no such thing as a black hare. Hares come in only three colours - brown, blue or white. Here's the tune for the Lloyd/Carthy version. Typed in from memory, as although I have the record I no longer have a working turntable: X:1 T:The Bonny Black Hare M:14/8 %Or you could just put "none"! K:ADor g f | ef g ed cd G B A G A c B | w:On the four-teenth of May* at* the dawn of the day, With me A A A Bd eg e a g b a2 a | w:gun on me shoul-der to* the woods I did stray, In A A A Bd eg e aa g e2 d | w:search of some game* if* the wea-ther proved clear, To e f g e d c d G BA G A || w:see could I get a shot at the bon-ny black hare W: W:Well I met a young girl there as sweet as a rose W:Her skin was as fair as the lily that blows W:She said to me "Sportsman why ramble you so?" W:I said "Can you tell me where the bonny black hare she do go?" W: W:Oh the answer she gave me oh her answer was "no, W:But under me apron well they say some do grow, W:So if you'll not deceive me now and your bullets play fair W:We'll go off together to seek the bonny black hare." W: W:Well I laid this girl down with her face to the skies W:I took out me ramrod aye and with bullets let fly W:I said "Lock yer legs round me love and dig in with your heels, W:For the closer we get love the better it feels." W: W:Well the birds they were singing in the bushes and trees W:And the song that they sang was "Oh she's easy to please", W:I felt her heart quiver then and I knew what I'd done W:Says I "Have you had enough of me old sporting gun?" W: W:Oh the answer she gave me oh her answer was "Nay, W:It's not often young sportsman that you come this way W:So if your powder is good, aye, and your bullets play fair W:Why don't you keep firing on at the bonny black hare?" W: W:"Oh me powder's all spent now and me bullets are gone, W:Me ramrod is limber aye and I cannot fire on; W:But I'll be back in the morning aye and if you are still there W:I'll be delighted to have another shot at the bonny black hare." [DMcG] Database entry created here Edited By dmcg - 20/03/2003 10:21:07 | ||
| Watson | Posted - 18 Mar 03 - 10:53 am | |
Phil - do you think that could be "Me ramrod is limp..."? | ||
| Abby Sale | Posted - 18 Mar 03 - 07:35 pm | |
Watson: That odd turn of grammar's one of the reasons I have more confidence that Lloyd (thus Carthy, thus President Taylor) got this from Randolph and not some other source. Wait - that discussion was over at Mudcat -- I'm really getting confused & I think I may go back to just talking to myself. I'd said to Carthy it was amazing how close his version and Randolph's were. He said he'd gotten (although not in that tense since Brits' language has deteriorated over the years and they don't have accress to the past or present perfect tenses anymore) it from Lloyd who'd gotten it from Randolph. Randolph also gives limber. Not a likely construction to arise independently. Randolph's source anecdotally dates his learning of it to about 1900 in Missouri. Edited By Abby Sale - 18/03/2003 19:52:30 | ||
| Watson | Posted - 19 Mar 03 - 01:20 pm | |
I appreciate what you are saying Abby, and I appreciate that in Folkinfo the intention is to have a collection of songs that is as true to the source as possible, but my comment was only about the words making sense. Here the sportsman is making excuses as to why he can't carry on - limber - meaning flexible and supple as against limp meaning hanging loosely, without energy or vitality etc. I can see which word conveys the intended meaning. I must admit that I haven't seen this song in print before, but I have heard it sung more often as "limp" than "limber", including the version Martin Carthy does. | ||
| Abby Sale | Posted - 19 Mar 03 - 03:34 pm | |
Ah. Well, of course you are correct as to the meaning of the words and I agree I suffered a small disquietude on that when I first started singing it. Singer's choice, surely, but source is source. Quite possibly Carthy has felt the same and changed his own singing. I just put "Byker Hill" on the turntable and it's clearly and certainly "limber." The Carthy web site Clicky gives "limp" and notes Transcribed from the singing of Martin Carthy by Greer Gilman. I don't have the 1967 LP, "The Bonny Black Hare" or Lloyd's record or anything on the (I believe, anyway) apocryphal Irish labourer, Mr Morrow of Walberswick, Suffol | ||
| Malcolm Douglas |
Posted - 19 Mar 03 - 04:28 pm | |
The 1967 LP is a compilation; Bonny Black Hare is the same recording as that which appeared on Byker Hill. Apparent sense notwithstanding, I suspect that Greer Gilman has made the same mistake that many others have made over the years (including me) in assuming that Carthy sings "limp" with a little sound between that and "and"; in the light of Abby's comments, it does seem that it was really "limber" all along. It's arguable that a "pliant, flexible" ramrod wouldn't be much use, so we don't need to worry, I think. I too am beginning to doubt the existence of Mr Morrow, who seems to be mentioned nowhere but in the occasional reference of Lloyd's. He would not be the first of Lloyd's sources who has left not a trace in any records (including censuses, it appears, in the case of Bert's alleged source for Reynardine); which might explain Martin's more recent comments being at odds with the original sleevenotes. Lloyd is still a bit too recent to be ripe for a comprehensive reassessment, perhaps, but the more I examine the numerous discrepancies between what he has said and the available evidence, the more I distrust him as a reference. | ||
| Watson | Posted - 19 Mar 03 - 05:40 pm | |
Interesting point, isn't it. The earliest known source may well have misheard what his antecedents had been singing. I've been trying to put together a singable version of another song - a topic for another thread perhaps - and you can trace the evolution of some of the lines from perfect sense to nonsense! By the way - Fellside have just issued a CD of some of Bert Lloyds recordings of songs from the Penguin Book of... We may not entirely have faith in what the man said, but the songs still make good listening. | ||
| Abby Sale | Posted - 20 Mar 03 - 04:34 pm | |
Some personal blather - I wouldn't care if Jon deleted this--- I, too, have tremendous respect for Lloyd. He was introduced on LP to me in 1959 by my "folk sire" the great MacEdward Leach in the E&SPB record series. I was stunned by MacColl in the same series but Lloyd also set a standard for me. Having bought several more of his records, I was thrilled to see him (only the once) in person at the Edinburgh Folk Song Soc in 1966. More in person than on record, I heard much wavering and "key-free" singing. I spoke to him afterwards and said there seemed to be a little similarity in his singing to that of John Jacob Niles and asked if there were any influence there. He was so deeply insulted that he never spoke to me again. (I still spend some time with foot in mouth but there you go.) Still, my respect for him, his singing, contribution to scholarship, chantey knowledge, "legitimization" of bawdy trad songs, etc grew and is great. I would not be at all surprised if he fudged things here and there & "made the data fit the curve." I've heard Australians several times claim that Lloyd's famous Australian material was more music hall and pop than traditional. We know we sing many forged folk songs. Some (eg written/adapted by Scott or JJ Niles or AP Carter or Jane Elliot or Lady Nairne) were presented as old songs and actually went into tradition and by now ARE old songs. Others appear uncredited in all those trad collections that just needed a few songs to pad out the book. In the 19th & 18th centuries, the "shame" part was as likely stealing songs from tradition and claiming them as new as it was false scholarship. And the likes of Burns & Baring-Gould were quite frank in collating and "improving" on tradition. On the other hand, I've been frequently surprised that MacColl took very obscure versions and odd phrases direct and literally from legit sources. But there, I remain suspicious of a number of his tunes, not texts. It seems so unlikely that the sole known source (ref. Bronson) for so many of MacColl's Child tunes was his own mother. So sometimes you fudge a bit and a good song gets sung. In the case of the "BB Hare," maybe Lloyd said, Look here; here's a good song that's most likely British and, in fact, has been collected in England - I just don't like to admit I got it from the Apalachians. And since the "Unprintable" collection will never be printed anyway, who'll know? | ||
| Guest (guest) |
Posted - 19 Dec 09 - 12:07 am | |
Hello, I came looking for the chords for the Carthy version of this, can anyone help ? email jan.sanders@xtra.co.nz thanks very much from New Zealand. | ||
| Jon Freeman | Posted - 19 Dec 09 - 12:42 am | |
I'd think: http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/martin.carthy/songs/thebonnyblackhare.html | ||
| Jon Freeman | Posted - 19 Dec 09 - 12:43 am | |
Hmm, no that doesn't give chords. | ||
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