| Author | Topic: Help: Idumea/Lord Thomas | |
| Ed | Posted - 02 Jan 03 - 07:03 pm | |
In the notes to The Watersons album 'Sound, Sound Your Instruments of Joy,' Bert Lloyd mentions that the tune to Idumea is "one of several used for the ballad of Lord Thomas and Fair Ellinder". Does anyone know of any such versions? My attempts to fit the words I know (Penguin Book of English Folk Songs) to the Idumea tune haven't been too successful. Edited By Ed - 1/2/2003 7:41:26 PM | ||
| Phil Taylor | Posted - 02 Jan 03 - 09:01 pm | |
I can't imagine how one might fit those words to the tune, without a considerable re-write. I do however have a nice version of Idumea in four parts, from The Original Sacred Harp, which I can post here if anybody wants it. | ||
| Ed | Posted - 03 Jan 03 - 05:35 am | |
Yes please, Phil | ||
| Phil Taylor | Posted - 03 Jan 03 - 09:57 am | |
Here you go. For afficionados of the seriously grim... X:1 T:Idumea C:Charles Wesley B:Original Sacred Harp. Denson Rev. 1971 B:Sacred Harp Publishing Co. Inc. Bremen, Georgia 30110. M:3/2 L:1/4 Q:150 V:4 bass K:Am [V:1] "Treble"c2 | e4 d2 | c4 d2 | e4 e2 | d4 (ed) | e4 (dc) | A4 |] w:And I am born to die. To lay this* bo-dy* down [V:2] "Alto"A2 | c4 (BA) | G4 G2 | A4 c2 | B4 (AB) | c4 (BG) | c4 |] w:And I am* born to die. To lay this* bo-dy* down [V:3] "Tenor"A2 | A4 (GA) | c4 (dc) | A4 e2 | g4 (ed) | c4 d2 | e4 |] w:And I am* born to* die. To lay this* bo-dy down [V:4] "Bass"A,2 | A,4 D,2 | E,4 E,2 | A,,4 A,2 | G,4 (CB,) | A,4 G,2 | E,4 |] w:And I am born to die. To lay this* bo-dy down % [V:1] |: A2 | c4 (cB) | A4 (cd) | e4 (BA) | G4 g2 | e4 (ed) | c4 [d2G2] |1 [e4A4] :|2 [e6A6] |] w: And must my* tremb-ling* spir-it* fly In-to a* world un-known? [V:2] |: c2 | G4 (AB) | c4 G2 | [c4E4] (Bc) | [d4G4] c2 | c4 (GF) | E4 G2 |1 E4 :|2 E6 |] w: And must my* tremb-ling spir-it* fly In-to a* world un-known? [V:3] |: e2 | g4 (ed) | e4 (dc) | A4 (GE) | G4 G2 | A4 (GA) | c4 (dc) |1 A4 :|2 A6 |] w: And must my* tremb-ling* spir-it* fly In-to a* world un-*known? [V:4] |: A,2 | G,4 (A,B,) | A,4 E,2 | A,,4 C,2 | G,4 C,2 | A,,4 (C,D,) | E,4 E,2 |1 A,,4 :|2 A,,6 |] w: And must my* tremb-ling spir-it fly In-to a* world un- known? W: W: W: A land of deepest shade. Un-pierced by human thought; W: The dreary regions of the dead, Where all things are forgot! W: W: Soon as from earth I go, What will become of me? W: Eternal happiness of woe Must then my portion be. W: W: Waked by the trumpet sound, I from my grave shall rise; W: And see the Judge with glory crowned, And see the flaming skies! | ||
| dmcg | Posted - 03 Jan 03 - 10:58 am | |
I've put this in the database - and its an 'I' song! I have moved the second and subsequent verses out of the ABC in line with our normal conventions. | ||
| Ed | Posted - 03 Jan 03 - 11:28 am | |
I know you want more 'I' songs Dave, but adding it twice is cheating! :-) More seriously, should this be in the database? We have an author for the words and a possible author for the tune. Jon? | ||
| dmcg | Posted - 03 Jan 03 - 11:44 am | |
I took one out, or so I thought. Double submission seems to be something I manage occasionally - I haven't quite figured out how I do it. Something to do with swapping windows and getting onto a 'Submit' window rather than an 'update' I imagine. | ||
| masato sakurai | Posted - 03 Mar 03 - 08:34 am | |
The Sacred Harp (1860) can be seen online. "Idumea" is on p. 47 (Click here). Also in the Revised Cooper Edition (Sacred Harp Books, 2000, p. 47) and the 1991 Edition (Sacred Harp Publishing Company, 1991, p. 47). According to George Pullen Jackson (in Spiritual Folk-Songs of Early America, 1937; rpt. Dover Publications, 1964, p. 155 [No. 137]): The words are by Charles Wesley. The tune is claimed by Ananias Davisson in his Kentucky Harmony (1815) whence it was borrowed by practically all the subsequent book compilers in the South. The tune was used for the secular ballad 'Lord Lovel'; see White Spirituals, p. 177. Also found KYH [Kentucky Harmony] 33, GCM [Genuine Church Music] 36, SOH [Southern Harmony] 31.Jackson (in White Spirituals in the Southern Uplands, 1933; Dover, 1965, p. 177) compares "Idumea" with "Lord Thomas and Fair Elenor," the version of the latter being the one (titled "Fair Ellender" or "Lord Thomas and Fair Ellinor") from Arthur Kyle Davis, Traditional Ballads of Virginia (1929; rpt. University of Virginia, 1969, p. 570; tune only), which is contained in Bronson, vol. II (p. 154 [No. 73, version 144]). Edited By masato sakurai - 18-Dec-2004 09:37:29 AM | ||
| masato sakurai | Posted - 04 Mar 03 - 09:50 am | |
"Idumea" is on Word of Mouth Chorus's Rivers of Delight: American Folk Hymns from the Sacred Harp Tradition (Elektra/Nonesuch 9 71360-2) [originally LP released in 1979], with notes by Buell E. Cobb: Ananias Davisson's tune, sung here with tenor and bass parts only, first appeared in the author's Kentucky Harmony (1815). Davisson, who had a penchant for minor-mode tunes, was a pioneer singing master in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley. Edited By masato sakurai - 04/03/2003 09:56:21 | ||
| MMario | Posted - 04 Mar 03 - 03:07 pm | |
The ballad referenced in the first post falls under Child 73; Bronson gives over 140 examples | ||
| masato sakurai | Posted - 18 Feb 04 - 04:11 pm | |
Sacred Harp Singers sing "Idumea" in the film Cold Mountain (click here for soundtrack). Edited By masato sakurai - 18-Feb-2004 04:13:30 PM Edited By masato sakurai - 19-Feb-2004 02:01:01 AM | ||
| Pip Freeman | Posted - 18 Feb 04 - 10:16 pm | |
Thanks, there is some nice music on that CD, I may be tempted to get it. | ||